Comments on: Gee Any Arghh http://matt.me63.com/2006/11/01/gee-any-arghh/ Wed, 03 Mar 2010 10:09:27 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Katharine Edgar http://matt.me63.com/2006/11/01/gee-any-arghh/#comment-278 Katharine Edgar Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:05:41 +0000 http://me63.wordpress.com/2006/11/01/gee-any-arghh/#comment-278 "I can categorically state that whether it be at the ticket office, on the Internet or from the fast ticket machines at stations, the restrictions that apply to tickets are clearly explained," Oh come on, Les, you're assuming that no-one selling tickets ever makes a mistake - how credible is that? The problem is that the conditions are so complex, varied and frequently changing that the customer has to rely on the expertise of someone selling the ticket. If a mistake is made at this point, and the salesperson wrongly advises the customer, then the customer ends up suffering both public humiliation and financial penalties through no fault of their own. Of course people try and fare-dodge (I'm sure we've all seen that happen too!), but the point Matt is making is that over and over again we have seen people who would not dream of doing this deliberately put in a position where they are doing it accidentally. No-one is blaming you (the ticket inspectors) for this and it must make things pretty difficult and stressful for you, but you can't deny the system needs fixing. “I can categorically state that whether it be at the ticket office, on the Internet or from the fast ticket machines at stations, the restrictions that apply to tickets are clearly explained,”

Oh come on, Les, you’re assuming that no-one selling tickets ever makes a mistake – how credible is that? The problem is that the conditions are so complex, varied and frequently changing that the customer has to rely on the expertise of someone selling the ticket. If a mistake is made at this point, and the salesperson wrongly advises the customer, then the customer ends up suffering both public humiliation and financial penalties through no fault of their own.

Of course people try and fare-dodge (I’m sure we’ve all seen that happen too!), but the point Matt is making is that over and over again we have seen people who would not dream of doing this deliberately put in a position where they are doing it accidentally. No-one is blaming you (the ticket inspectors) for this and it must make things pretty difficult and stressful for you, but you can’t deny the system needs fixing.

]]> By: mattedgar http://matt.me63.com/2006/11/01/gee-any-arghh/#comment-264 mattedgar Wed, 08 Nov 2006 23:21:04 +0000 http://me63.wordpress.com/2006/11/01/gee-any-arghh/#comment-264 Thanks to Les for taking the time to respond and set out the Revenue Protection Inspector's point of view. My issue is not with the GNER staff's professionalism, or indeed patience, which is admirable if this really is happening as often as Les says. Rather, my point is that the system is broken from the perspective of a customer. Consider the difference between Les's knowledge of the National Conditions Of Carriage, and that of a customer - take Katharine who wrote comment number 1 for example. There's inevitably an imbalance between the power of the insider, Les, and the outsider, Katharine. Excellence in customer service means doing whatever it takes, throughout the organisation, to reduce that imbalance. But in GNER's case, pricing complexity, poor ticket naming, opaque language, poor context of communication and lack of forgiveness (to restate my original five points) only make the situation worse. This is a shame, because making the experience better might actually make business sense as well. Thanks to Les for taking the time to respond and set out the Revenue Protection Inspector’s point of view. My issue is not with the GNER staff’s professionalism, or indeed patience, which is admirable if this really is happening as often as Les says.
Rather, my point is that the system is broken from the perspective of a customer. Consider the difference between Les’s knowledge of the National Conditions Of Carriage, and that of a customer – take Katharine who wrote comment number 1 for example.
There’s inevitably an imbalance between the power of the insider, Les, and the outsider, Katharine. Excellence in customer service means doing whatever it takes, throughout the organisation, to reduce that imbalance.
But in GNER’s case, pricing complexity, poor ticket naming, opaque language, poor context of communication and lack of forgiveness (to restate my original five points) only make the situation worse.
This is a shame, because making the experience better might actually make business sense as well.

]]> By: Les Savine http://matt.me63.com/2006/11/01/gee-any-arghh/#comment-263 Les Savine Wed, 08 Nov 2006 08:12:12 +0000 http://me63.wordpress.com/2006/11/01/gee-any-arghh/#comment-263 Matt Speaking from a professional point of view as a revenue protection inspector for GNER, I feel the need to clarify a few points regarding a point of the featured conversation above. Customer: But no one told me that when I bought the ticket at the station/on the internet/wherever. I can categorically state that whether it be at the ticket office, on the Internet or from the fast ticket machines at stations, the restrictions that apply to tickets are clearly explained, even to the point that the larger "airline style" tickets actually have the restrictions printed upon them. Unfortunately, in the case of GNER, we do get a high level of people 'pulling the wool' or just trying to fare evade and this can happen maybe 7/8 times on each train which could explain why the guard/ticket examiner wasn't at his/her best customer service wise, I can personally vouch for the fact that just 1/2 difficult customers can be a very big drain on your understanding. With regard to ticketing regulations, the National Conditions of Carriage (The rules of the railway, available from all staffed stations) state that "The passenger is responsible for ensuring they have the correct ticket for the train they wish to travel on". These rules are not made up by the train companies and therefore are not subject to negotiation by the TOCs. Another point on invalid/non ticket travel is that the loss of revenue, which in the case of most inter city TOCs is rather large means that the other 99% of fare paying passengers with the right ticket for their train have to suffer even more in the round of fare increases that happen every year, so, if we failed to do our job by ensuring people have the right ticket for the train they are travelling, we would be held accountable for not performing ticket checks to catch the wrong-doers. In an ideal World, all passengers would have the correct ticket for the correct train so positions like mine would no longer be necessary but this is far from an ideal World and the situation will keep presenting itself. I hope this post clarifies some of the points raised in yor original post and I would be glad to re-post if you have any further queries. Best Regards Les Savine Revenue Protection Inspector GNER, Kings Cross Matt

Speaking from a professional point of view as a revenue protection inspector for GNER, I feel the need to clarify a few points regarding a point of the featured conversation above.

Customer: But no one told me that when I bought the ticket at the station/on the internet/wherever.

I can categorically state that whether it be at the ticket office, on the Internet or from the fast ticket machines at stations, the restrictions that apply to tickets are clearly explained, even to the point that the larger “airline style” tickets actually have the restrictions printed upon them.

Unfortunately, in the case of GNER, we do get a high level of people ‘pulling the wool’ or just trying to fare evade and this can happen maybe 7/8 times on each train which could explain why the guard/ticket examiner wasn’t at his/her best customer service wise, I can personally vouch for the fact that just 1/2 difficult customers can be a very big drain on your understanding.

With regard to ticketing regulations, the National Conditions of Carriage (The rules of the railway, available from all staffed stations) state that “The passenger is responsible for ensuring they have the correct ticket for the train they wish to travel on”. These rules are not made up by the train companies and therefore are not subject to negotiation by the TOCs.

Another point on invalid/non ticket travel is that the loss of revenue, which in the case of most inter city TOCs is rather large means that the other 99% of fare paying passengers with the right ticket for their train have to suffer even more in the round of fare increases that happen every year, so, if we failed to do our job by ensuring people have the right ticket for the train they are travelling, we would be held accountable for not performing ticket checks to catch the wrong-doers.

In an ideal World, all passengers would have the correct ticket for the correct train so positions like mine would no longer be necessary but this is far from an ideal World and the situation will keep presenting itself.

I hope this post clarifies some of the points raised in yor original post and I would be glad to re-post if you have any further queries.

Best Regards

Les Savine
Revenue Protection Inspector
GNER, Kings Cross

]]> By: The Ignominy of having the Wrong Train Ticket http://matt.me63.com/2006/11/01/gee-any-arghh/#comment-260 The Ignominy of having the Wrong Train Ticket Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:15:36 +0000 http://me63.wordpress.com/2006/11/01/gee-any-arghh/#comment-260 [...] Matt Edgar has written an interesting article about a situation on a GNER train that I find all-too-familiar. In fact I’m sure it won’t be long before it happens to me. One of the issues is the ridiculous number of ticket types available. [...] [...] Matt Edgar has written an interesting article about a situation on a GNER train that I find all-too-familiar. In fact I’m sure it won’t be long before it happens to me. One of the issues is the ridiculous number of ticket types available. [...]

]]> By: Katharine Edgar http://matt.me63.com/2006/11/01/gee-any-arghh/#comment-249 Katharine Edgar Fri, 03 Nov 2006 17:48:01 +0000 http://me63.wordpress.com/2006/11/01/gee-any-arghh/#comment-249 Good point. I haven't been on GNER much since they caught me sitting in a Standard Plus seat when I only had a Standard ticket and I've been too ashamed to return in case everyone stares at me and points. It's not just GNER though - I hear the same conversation all the time on Midland Mainline. Though never on Virgin. (Who needs working toilets or air con when you've got properly customer-service trained staff?) Good point.

I haven’t been on GNER much since they caught me sitting in a Standard Plus seat when I only had a Standard ticket and I’ve been too ashamed to return in case everyone stares at me and points.

It’s not just GNER though – I hear the same conversation all the time on Midland Mainline. Though never on Virgin. (Who needs working toilets or air con when you’ve got properly customer-service trained staff?)

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